Revolutionizing From Courtrooms to Crusts with Ben Gollan from A Man and His Sandwich

Episode Overview

EpisodeTopic:

Begin a delightful journey into the flavorful world of New York’s sandwich scene with Ben Gollan, the innovative founder of “A Man and His Sandwich.” In this episode of TravelPreneur, listeners are treated to an insightful conversation with Ben as he shares his remarkable transition from a legal career to becoming New York’s leading sandwich tour guide.

Lessons You’ll Learn:

Step into the flavorful universe of New York’s sandwich scene with Ben Gollan as your guide. Experience the infectious optimism of New Yorkers as Ben shares tales of celebrity encounters and media attention. Discover how Ben transitioned from a career in law to becoming the leading sandwich tour expert , offering a unique blend of culinary exploration and community engagement. Learn about the unique criteria behind Ben’s selection of sandwich shops and uncover the hidden gems that define New York’s diverse sandwich landscape.

About Our Guest:

Ben Gollan, a former lawyer turned sandwich connoisseur, brings his passion for food and adventure to the forefront as the founder of “A Man and His Sandwich.” With a knack for storytelling and a deep appreciation for culinary delights, Ben has carved out a niche in New York City’s bustling food scene. Through his engaging tours and virtual cooking classes, Ben shares his expertise on sandwiches while showcasing the rich tapestry of flavors and cultures that define the city’s culinary landscape. 

Topics Covered:

In this lively discussion, Ben Gollan offers insights into the diverse array of sandwiches that define New York City’s culinary identity. From iconic deli classics to hidden gems tucked away in neighborhood bodegas, listeners gain a newfound appreciation for the artistry and craftsmanship behind each sandwich creation. Throughout the episode, Ben’s passion for sandwiches and storytelling shines through, leaving listeners hungry for more culinary adventures in New York City.

Our Guest: Ben Gollan: One of the Culinary Gems by Unique Sandwich Tour in NYC!

Episode Transcript

Ben Gollan: When you get started. I probably would not go into it based on the money. I used to be a lawyer. That’s a pretty good living. It’s hard to be a sandwich tour guide financially, a horrible decision. I was very, very lucky to have a wonderfully smart and supportive and successful wife that allowed my crazy Follies into sandwich tours rather than being a lawyer, but at first, it’s unless you’re extremely lucky, it’s not going to blow up immediately. There’s going to be a grind for you to get to a successful point where those tours are really going to sustain you in your life.

Megha McSwain: Welcome to TravelPreneur, the weekly business show for the travel industry. I’m your host, Houston-based travel journalist, Megha McSwain. Each episode, we’ll be exploring what it takes to thrive as a business owner in the travel industry. From conversations with leading travel business executives and industry-focused venture capitalists to exploring the innovations that are shaping the next generation of travel business, if it impacts the travel industry, we cover it here on TravelPreneur. Welcome food enthusiast and travel lovers to another episode of travel Preneur. I’m your host, Megha McSwain. Today we’re diving into the flavorful world of New York’s sandwich scene with Ben Gollan, the innovative founder of a man and his sandwich. Welcome to the show, Ben.

Ben Gollan: Thank you mate. Thank you for having me on the podcast. It’s pretty cool.

Megha McSwain: This sounds so interesting. Just the name. I love the name, I’m already intrigued. Let’s dive into it. Can you share what sparked your transition from being a lawyer to becoming New York’s leading sandwich tour guide?

Ben Gollan: Yes, I’m the leading tour guide, but I think I’m the only tour guide, so I guess I’m definitionally the best and worst at the same time. As you can probably tell from the accent, I’m from Australia originally, but I’ve been living here in New York City for the past seven years. In 2016, I moved across with my wife for her job. She works for an American company, so they transferred her across in Australia. For almost ten years I was in the legal world, specifically working with the Australian government in a legal world. And the move across to America was a bit of a forced, voluntary circuit breaker of that legal career. If I wanted to be a lawyer in New York, I had to go and pass the bar exam.

Megha McSwain: And that’s. A hard one.

Ben Gollan: Isn’t it? It doesn’t sound fun. And look, I didn’t enjoy it the first time in Australia, I definitely wasn’t signing up to do it a second time in New York. I got to New York effectively without a job, and with the idea that I wanted to try something new. I didn’t exactly know what that something new was, and I waited until I got to New York City to figure that out. I had this crazy romantic idea that the city would speak to me and I’d find out what it was. But two years prior, I’d been here on vacation, and I decided to break up New York via neighborhood, via sandwich, in the neighborhood to make the city more approachable because it’s big and dense and incredible. And as I did that, I started a very embarrassing travel blog called a man and His Sandwich to handle all of my daily adventures in New York City. That snowballed into me writing for publications in Australia about the topic of the sandwich, just as a bit of fun as a creative outlet. So then when I did get to New York City and I didn’t have a job, I was able to lean into that creative outlet a little bit more and started running some ad hoc food tours for a PR company. Then eventually I got wind of Airbnb experiences starting up in New York City. And I applied for the launch program in 2017 that was accepted. Thankfully, as part of their launch, I may have exaggerated slightly my résumé to Airbnb about my contacts in the food world in New York, but I accepted it. And then from that point onwards, I became a sandwich tour guide. At first it was a hobby, and then eventually it turned into a business and my full-time career.

Megha McSwain: Have you always been a foodie, or was this something more of kind of using the sandwich as, like you said, being approachable to certain neighborhoods?

Ben Gollan: I think it was really good sandwiches, if I’m honest. Sandwiches have nostalgia for me, myself, and a lot of people grew up eating sandwiches, opening the lunchbox at school to say, well, mom and dad had packed that day’s destinations. You go and eat them on family picnics, all that sort of stuff. So, there’s definitely something about sandwiches above just food. But it was also my wife that got me into food originally. Her family are all foodies and she introduced me to the world of food. And sandwiches, was just my one particular passion from that world of food.

Megha McSwain: In creating a man and his sandwich, how did you identify and select the sandwich shops and experiences that would define your tours? I’m sure you’ve tried a lot of them and sort of picked ones that you felt were worthy.

Ben Gollan: I like to describe it as a lot of fun, Research and development. Eating sandwiches in New York City. The whole premise of the sandwich tour is actually down to one particular sandwich here in New York, it was a very unique pastrami sandwich from a deli called Harry and Ida’s. Sadly, it doesn’t exist anymore. Covid took Harry and Ida’s from us, but it was a pastrami sandwich with buttermilk fermented cucumbers, fresh dill, anchovy infused mustard on like a warmed, crusty sort of hero or hoagie. And the first time I ate it, I thought, I need more of this in my life. I didn’t know how I was going to be in my life, but that was the exact same time I’d heard about Airbnb experiences launching. I walked into Harry and Ida’s and spoke to the owners, Will and Julie, and I said, guys, I’ve got these crazy. I’d. Have you ever been on a bar crawl? If so, switch out the drinks for the sandwiches. I want to start that. I want to use your sandwich and your restaurant as the crown jewel of the tour. And they said yes. They’re so welcoming, so accommodating. They let us go behind the scenes and see how they made this incredible pastrami sandwich. And once I had them on board, it was effectively just concentric circles around the East Village of New York City finding amazing, delicious sandwiches. That was a lot harder to do the first time around, when I didn’t have a business or a product, and I had to ask people to put their faith in me for these tours. Most people said yes, some didn’t want a tour group in, and that’s totally fine.

Ben Gollan: But since that time is effectively a bunch of criteria about how a sandwich ends up on the tour, number one, it has to be delicious. There’s no two ways around it. It can’t be just an adequate sandwich. I have to personally love eating it. So that’s one. Number two, I prefer to go into places that you probably haven’t heard of. I want to work with independent mom and pop shops. You don’t need me to go to Katz Deli and recreate the famous when Harry met Sally scene, which we all know and love. But you might need me to go to a bodega that’s run by a Korean family, but they specialize in Vietnamese sandwiches. That’s the sort of under the radar element that I want to bring my guests to. I also want to promote these tiny little sandwiches and sandwich shops because they’re often run by families, families who don’t have the time because they’re running a business or don’t have the money or capability to really promote their incredible stories, their incredible food, their incredible shops. So, the fun part for me is telling their stories to people who come in from domestic American travelers, international travelers or locals alike in New York City and then, of course, there has to be a certain proximity to where these sandwich shops exist. Because as much as I’d love to have a minivan and I’ll be driving people all across the five boroughs, that’s not really going to work for our business.

Megha McSwain: I feel like in a place like New York, there are so many, and it’s hard to kind of distinguish which one you want to go to and what are you going to order when you get there, just kind of like all of that. And when you’re walking around and you try to look it up on your phone, it’s hard to get exactly what you’re looking for just on your phone. It’s nice to have someone to kind of really direct you.

Ben Gollan: It’s the trusted person or I don’t like to say, It’s the sandwich king. Let’s go. Let’s try with a connoisseur, not a king. But it’s having someone who’s done that first level of hard work, of sifting through all of the sandwiches and also just taking a lot of the burden off. That’s the joy for me of attending and running walking tours. I’m a trusted person. I can get into their weird little world for a couple of hours. They’ve done the work, and they’re going to deliver some amazing food or some amazing history or so forth, and I just get to come along for the ride without having this analysis paralysis of scrolling through Google or Yelp.

Megha McSwain: And when you’re hungry too, and you just want to find something fast, that’s the worst.

Ben Gollan: Yeah. Especially when you start getting hungry, not just hungry then. Then it’s a problem.

Megha McSwain: Yes, definitely. Well, you know, the only thing I would think of though, like on a bar crawl, you’re hitting several places. And of course, you can only drink so much before you kind of hit a limit. But isn’t it the same thing with sandwiches? I mean, don’t you get full after a certain amount? How many are on your tour?

Ben Gollan: I hope you get full on my tours. My pet peeve is going on a food tour, leaving hungry and having to go and get a snack afterwards. So that’s not happening. I always have to say my goal is to get you stuffed, not sick. Okay, with that in mind, you can’t eat a full sandwich at every stop, right? We hit up most often. We hit up three venues, and at those three venues you’ll eat somewhere around about a half a sandwich. So effectively, over the course of two hours, you’re eating anywhere from 1 to 1 and a half sandwiches in total. But you are getting to sample different variations of sandwiches, different types, different flavors to make sure that you do not leave hungry, but also that you can still eat from the beginning until the very end.

Megha McSwain: What’s the most surprising or unexpected lesson that you’ve learned about New York City and its people? Through the lens of these sandwich tours?

Ben Gollan: The most unexpected thing is the unbridled optimism of New Yorkers. It’s also unwarranted. There are a million reasons why New York City should not work. It is so expensive. There are so many folks here in the summertime. The smells that are salt, your nose is a whole nother ball game. But it does work. And I think a big reason why it does work is the. Endless optimism of New York. And by that, I mean, when I tell someone here in New York that what I do for work is sandwich walking tours almost every single time, their response is, that is incredible. That’s amazing. Of course, you do. You’re going to be the best at it. That’s the best idea I’ve ever heard. Oh my goodness, I can’t wait to take a New York sandwich tour with you. Incredible. That exact same reaction doesn’t really happen. At least back where I come from in Sydney. There is there’s support for it, but often the first reaction is, oh no, a real job. What’s your real job? What do you actually do? And that unbridled enthusiasm here in New York City permeates the entire city, not just a reaction to me. It’s the enthusiasm of the sandwich shop families who’ve taken a risk to just dedicate them their lives and all their money to creating these delicious sandwiches. It’s for the enthusiasm of people who move here every single year, trying for an opportunity to cash in on that cliché. If you could make it here, you could make it anywhere. And by eating sandwiches and meeting so many New Yorkers through those sandwiches, including guests and vendors, partners and tour operators, it’s that enthusiasm which keeps me energized to be enthusiastic about a man and his sandwich tours six seven years down the line so far.

Megha McSwain: It makes it more fun. You know, with all of that positivity and support and everything.

Ben Gollan: It makes it so much fun. I used to be a lawyer, and now I get to eat sandwiches with people for a living. This is the best job in the world, right?

Megha McSwain: There’s a debate on your tours. Is a hot dog a sandwich? So, what are some of the most interesting or amusing responses you’ve gotten from people? What do I mean, is there an answer to this?

Ben Gollan: Is a hot dog a sandwich? Or more broadly, what is a sandwich? That debate is the core tenants to every single tour or virtual cooking class we do. It’s basically what the business is built on. There is an answer. I’m not going to tell you exactly what the answer is on this podcast, because I need you to come on the tour and find out about it yourself, and we can explore it together. There are a lot of typical responses to the hot dog. In particular, the hot dog is the dividing line for groups on the tours. A lot of folks say no because of the orientation of the hot dog, for instance, it’s stacked vertically, not horizontally. Some folks don’t like the fact that the hot dog sausage or wiener isn’t sliced. There’re not enough ingredients. It’s not the same vibe, but the most interesting one I’ve heard that relates to both the hot dog, but also more specifically to open faced sandwiches, which you can argue a hot dog is that the open face sandwich is a sandwich because it is sandwiched by the absence of something on the other side. That was told to me by a philosophy major last year. Look, it may not make sense. It blew me away. I’ve been thinking about it for at least 12 months now. It is very deep, and I hope the gentleman who said that to me is listening to this, and he can take some credit for it as well.

Megha McSwain: Well, I like that. Yeah. I mean, you guys have definitely put a lot of thought into that. So, let the debate continue. We’ll have to definitely check out your tours and see what kinds of sandwiches, hot dogs, open faced sandwiches that we can kind of.

Ben Gollan: What do you think?

Megha McSwain: I kind of agree with that. I mean, it’s missing a top layer and you’re acknowledging that it’s an open-faced sandwich. I think that’s but I think that’s different from a hot dog. I think a hot dog is not a sandwich.

Ben Gollan: Why not?

Megha McSwain: I think it’s just in a different category.

Ben Gollan: If we look at it logically, it’s meats, vegetables, sauces inside bread. So. Right.

Megha McSwain: But then is a burger a sandwich?

Ben Gollan: Yeah. Is it not? I mean, when the burger was first invented, it was literally called a Hamburg sandwich for about 40 years.

Megha McSwain: This episode is brought to you by travelpayments.com. Travel businesses have unique needs when it comes to credit card processing. From large average ticket sizes and tolerance for higher chargeback ratios to simple integrations with the most popular shopping cart systems, the travel industry specialists, at travelpayments.com, have you covered. Unfortunately, many of the most popular credit card processors initially accept travel businesses, but without warning, freeze their merchant accounts and the thousands of dollars in them. Because these service providers don’t understand or support the unique needs of the travel industry business, don’t get stuck with one of the big guys who will freeze you out without a moment’s notice. Instead, work with a travel industry specialist who will support your business every step of the way. Visit travelpayments.com to get a free quote today. I’m a food writer, so I deal with all different kinds of foods all of the time. And I think personally, I like having compartments for foods. I like that there’s burgers and there’s hot dogs and then there’s sandwiches, because if you kind of put them all into one, I feel like it makes my job harder. I like having different names and different compartments for different foods. But, you know, I’m open to learning and I’m definitely open to taking the tour and kind of discovering more. I feel like New York has more. I wouldn’t say better, more sandwiches than in Houston. You’re probably seeing things I’ve never seen before.

Ben Gollan: I mean, I like to argue that New York is the sandwich capital of the world. England doesn’t like that, but that’s just England. I’m Australian. We like to give each other. We like to give each other crap. Who cares what anyone thinks?

Megha McSwain: Yeah, give him a hard time.

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Megha McSwain: Can you share one of your most popular tours or virtual classes that you’ve had so far, and kind of what makes it a must try for foodies visiting New York?

Ben Gollan: It’s hard to pick between two. The first one is obviously the original flagship tour that we do, the New York Sandwich Tour. It’s the original. I’ve been running it for six years now. It’s constantly updated so you can come back to it over and over again. It goes to two hours, and it explores the East Village of Manhattan, which is a lesser explored neighborhood, and a lot of places, especially for first timers in New York. First timers tend to go for the really big-ticket items Central Park, Times Square, Statue of Liberty, etc. I like to take them to this really unique neighborhood of this village. It’s got a long, rich history and it’s filled with independent food and drink destinations, so already it’s just an amazing place to explore for food and drink. We have great relationships with a bunch of different sandwich shops there, incredible food to eat, unique history, unique stories and we even finish the tour at a really cool, welcoming community bar. After we’ve torn the group apart debating hot dogs, we can bring them together at the end with a celebratory drink. It’s so much fun and easily our most popular, but the other one that’s really blown me away in the last few years is our virtual sandwich cooking class. The sandwich master class during Covid obviously couldn’t do walking tours, so I transitioned the New York Sandwich Tour into a virtual sandwich cooking class. Teams join me for an hour on zoom.

Megha McSwain: So were you making it?

Megha McSwain: The sandwiches or did you have a guest from a restaurant making the sandwiches?

Ben Gollan: No, me because it got really busy. So as soon as you book for yourself, your team or your family, I send you an ingredients list of what we’re going to make together with a sandwich over an hour on zoom, we get to hang out together, learn a bit of history about the sandwich, make this delicious New York Italian deli sandwich. And then we also get to debate together the hot dog question. It is phenomenal to see work colleagues debate each other about a question as important, but as silly as whether or not the hot dog is a sandwich, it gets really heated. It blew up during Covid. At the peak of Covid, I was running 14 classes per day, which was a lot. I still run the virtual sandwich cooking class for corporate teams, remote corporate teams all over the world, and it just was given that we had to interact through the computer rather than have actual human interaction face to face. It’s phenomenal how fun and how connected, we could get on something as simple as a sandwich cooking class.

Megha McSwain: A man and his sandwich has gained media attention, including features in Forbes and on national television. So how has that affected the business? I mean, have you had celebrities on your walking tours? Have people stopped you and said, hey, you’re the sandwich guy?

Ben Gollan: The stopping happens more regularly now and it’s always a bit of fun, especially when I’m on a tour. It makes me feel good. It makes me look like this authority in front of folks. In terms of celebrities. On a tour for a total of about seven seconds, Dave Chappelle was on my tour only because he was walking past the time and he stopped to listen to her. That’s a cool fact. Yeah, I’ll claim it. It’s Dave Chappelle, I’ll claim it. But the media attention is really useful as an authority badge for my business. I’m not just this crazy guy who likes sandwiches and wanders around New York City. I’ve actually garnered some national attention, and that national attention not only puts eyeballs on my business and helps with bookings, but one piece of media recognition helps leverage opportunities for more media pieces of recognition. Being on national television, both here in America and Australia, has meant that magazines and online publications have reached out to me for comments on stories, because they’ve seen I’ve been on television now talking about sandwiches,  I have a history and a background and a business in it, and it also gives customers a bit of a reassurance that booking a sandwich tour in New York is not the worst idea in the world, because when you come to New York, you have limited time and there’s endless opportunities here. By choosing my sandwich tour, you are automatically sacrificing doing something else. That’s why I try to make my tours so much fun and so interactive, because I know they’ve taken their time to choose my tours, so let’s make it fun. If they’re not going to do it.

Megha McSwain: How long is a tour like? How long are they generally?

Ben Gollan: A walking tour is two hours. I’m whilst I’m 40, I’m still of the generation of a short attention span. I think after more than two hours you start losing folks, I’d lose myself as well, but they’ll also extend to hour three or beyond because people want to hang out at the end and chat and have made friends socially. Being sociable and like the sandwich is an incredible vehicle. For connections because it is ubiquitous around the world. Most countries have their own version of a sandwich. Most people have grown up eating some version of the sandwich. No matter where you come from or what your language is, you can connect to this common point of the sandwich. And once strangers feel comfortable connecting over something they have in common, that opens them up to talk about themselves and their uncommon aspects that they know about. When you spend two really fun hours together, and then at the end, I get to sit you down in a warm, cozy bar. And if you’d like, you can have a drink that just helps the conversation and the tour extend if you want to extend it for a little while longer.

Megha McSwain: So how do you see a man in his sandwich evolving in the future, especially with dietary trends changing and people’s preferences and things like that?

Ben Gollan: Dietary trends aren’t really a concern for me at this point. I know my business and my tours are not for everybody. They’re just not. And I don’t think your tours should necessarily be for everyone. I like living in the world of niche tours. I like niche tours that are really interesting. I think the world is shifting towards more niche tours. Rather than seeing 30 things in one day on a generic New York tour, my business actually says up front that our tours aren’t really appropriate for gluten free folks. It’s a sandwich tour. It’s really hard to be gluten free. There are exceptions. I’ve definitely had a bunch of gluten free people over the years, but it’s not the focus. Vegan food can be a little bit hard. Vegetarianism is fine, but we could make most of it work. But by acknowledging that it’s not for everyone, by acknowledging that certain dietary restrictions are not the main focus of my business, the dietary trends aren’t a huge concern for me at this point in terms of evolving the business. This year is a big year for us. We are going to try to move outside of New York City and see if the magic that we have on the tours here, making us the number one tour group on Airbnb experiences and being nationally televised and awarded and so forth, does that work outside of New York City? And in late March, early April, we’re launching the Nashville Sandwich Tour.

Ben Gollan: They have an incredible love for sandwiches down there. It’s a really hot chicken sandwich. But also, it’s relatively walkable down there. Everyone I’ve met in Tennessee has had incredible welcoming attitudes, so we’re going to see if that works. If it does, in my heart of hearts, I’d still love to work in Sydney, Australia as well in my hometown. And then we’ve got some other ideas around sandwich safaris. Lack of a better term, why limit ourselves to just sandwiches in New York? Maybe we can go and do a multi-day tour to other destinations that also love sandwiches as well. But this year is going to be the year of extending outside of New York and then inside of New York, focusing on the corporate world and the private tours. I’m seeing a big trend of corporate and private experiences, especially off the back of Covid, when everyone had to try and be really creative about team building and team bonding. And we all jumped into virtual experiences that gave a lot of businesses a taste of what really fun, unique team building experiences like ours can do. And so now that I’ve had that taste, being able to quote unquote real things on the ground in New York City when we’re actually together in person again, then that’s going to be another big arm of the evolution of Amani Sandwich tours.

Megha McSwain: So, for people who are inspired by your story, your journey, looking to start a unique food-based business, what advice would you give them?

Ben Gollan: Yeah, there’s a couple of really big things. Number one is definitely if you’re going to do a tour, build the tours that you would want to go on yourself. There’s no point trying to build a tool that’s going to please and cater to every single person in the world, because no matter how good your tour is, it’s not going to please and cater to every single person in your world. Do something that you’d want to go on. And the reason I say that is in the tour game, a lot of it, especially up front, is about repetition. You are most likely going to be running the first few tours, if not always, or at least you’re going to have a team running those tours for you. And it needs to be something fun and engaging for yourself to do repetitively. Tours are a living, breathing organism. They need oxygen, they need energy. And you need to be energized presenting it. Because when you’re energized and enthusiastic, your guests are going to be more energized and enthusiastic. If you can then build some interactivity into it, you’re going to receive that energy and it becomes a circle. You’re going to have more fun. They’re going to have more fun. And by having more fun, it’s a better product. At the end of the day, you’re going to get better reviews.

Ben Gollan: Those reviews are going to attract more guests, and it just works on a cycle like that. The other piece of advice is, when you get started. I probably would not go into it based on the money. I used to be a lawyer. That’s a pretty good living. It’s hard to be a sandwich tour guide financially, a horrible decision. I was very, very lucky to have a wonderfully smart and supportive and successful wife that allowed my crazy Follies into sandwich tours rather than being a lawyer, but at first, it’s unless you’re extremely lucky, it’s not going to blow up immediately. There’s going to be a grind for you to get to a successful point where those tours are really going to sustain you in your life. I started these out purely as a hobby for the first 18 months. I did it on Saturdays with the aim of meeting really cool people, sharing sandwiches, having some banter, finishing with a beer, and just having fun outside of my 9 to 5 Monday to Friday. Eventually I realized they were catching on and I could switch my hobby into a career, but the fact I only did it once a week for the first 18 months, I think, is the reason why I still have so much fun and passion and energy to still run them to this very day.

Megha McSwain: Yeah, that’s the best-case scenario. When your hobby turns into something that you can make a career, it’s perfect.

Ben Gollan: It’s the first time I’ve ever had a job in my entire life that I miss when I’m not working. It’s a bizarre feeling, but it’s so satisfying.

Megha McSwain: Well, this has been so. I mean, you’re making me want to go on a sandwich tour in New York. You’re making me want a sandwich, actually. Thank you so much for sharing your journey and letting our listeners know where they can connect with you, where they can follow you on social media, and of course, where they can sign up for a tour if they’re in New York City.

Ben Gollan: Yeah. Our website is a man and his sandwich.com, where they can sign up for tours and get some more information for both personal travel and private corporate events. But if you really want to get those eyeballs on some delicious sandwiches, check us out on Instagram as well. A man and his sandwich. And it’s just hundreds of pictures of delicious sandwiches. They’re going to make your mouth water.

Megha McSwain: People in Nashville listening, get excited because you’ll be able to take a walking tour soon. Well, thank you so much, Ben. I appreciate you sharing all of this information, really inspiring journey. To our listeners, we hope this episode has also tantalized your taste buds and inspired your travel dreams. Please remember to follow us and subscribe to TravelPreneur for future episodes. We’ll see you next time! You’ve been listening to TravelPreneur by travelpayments.com. Make sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast listening platform so you never miss a new episode, and we’ll see you again soon on TravelPreneur.